Advice and Support from Thousands of Users Just Like You

Relationships Relationships: they have their ups and their downs. Share your joy or weather the storm in this discussion board.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Sassafras54's Avatar

Veteran

Join Date: Oct 2009

Posts: 1,416

See profile

So sorry for all you've been through!

A couple thoughts ... she does sound like a classic battered woman. You could think of that as similar to a drug addiction, which can help make the nasty stuff she's done to you feel less personal?

You could look up battered womens' facilities in her city and if you contact her, have that info for her. You can't make her do anything about it, but it might help.

A group like Al-Anon might help you separate her addiction out of your relationship with her? I don't know if there are similar groups particularly for relatives with battered-women syndrome but it seems like they might exist. If not, try Al-Anon.

You could sue in small-claims court for the money she stole, if it hasn't been too long. That might help resolve at least that part of things. Part of helping an addict is making them be responsible for the bad stuff their addiction causes -- it's not just about getting the $ back.

I really hope you find a good way through this for yourself, and if what you do helps your sister too that's a windfall.
- October 27th, 2009, 12:02 pm
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Share on Facebook

#11   Reply With Quote
saulgoode's Avatar

Unregistered

Join Date: Oct 2008

Posts: 1,308

See profile

Ladies, I'd be real careful throwing around the "battered woman" label.

I have no pity for women who stay in an abusive relationship, anymore than I have pity for men who are emasculated by their woman, anymore than I have pity for dope heads and alcoholics.

These people are victims of THEIR OWN bad choices.

It is is NOT the guy's fault that the woman is in an abusive relationship. It is HERS.

It is not the guy's fault she cashed all those checks, or broke off contact with her family.

It is HER fault, and HERS alone.

Stop making excuses.

Stop bashing and blaming the guy. He is irrelevant. Why are you blaming the guy? He didn't write the checks.

Sure, he sounds like a real arsehole, but she's a big girl, and she makes her own choices.

It's heartless, I guess, but I really feel no pity for women who stay in a relationship they know is dangerous. I just see them as freaking idiots to whom I don't want to loan my checkbook.


- Saul
- October 27th, 2009, 12:20 pm
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Share on Facebook

#12   Reply With Quote
lululu's Avatar

lululu needs to meet a guy on her own continent.

Newbie

Join Date: Oct 2009

Posts: 41

See profile

saulgoode wrote :
Ladies, I'd be real careful throwing around the "battered woman" label.

I have no pity for women who stay in an abusive relationship, anymore than I have pity for men who are emasculated by their woman, anymore than I have pity for dope heads and alcoholics.

These people are victims of THEIR OWN bad choices.

It is is NOT the guy's fault that the woman is in an abusive relationship. It is HERS.

It is not the guy's fault she cashed all those checks, or broke off contact with her family.

It is HER fault, and HERS alone.

Stop making excuses.

Stop bashing and blaming the guy. He is irrelevant. Why are you blaming the guy? He didn't write the checks.

Sure, he sounds like a real arsehole, but she's a big girl, and she makes her own choices.

It's heartless, I guess, but I really feel no pity for women who stay in a relationship they know is dangerous. I just see them as freaking idiots to whom I don't want to loan my checkbook.


- Saul
I am not going to touch the check forgery, because that's a whole other issue, but as far as battered women go, I can say a few things.

One of the classic things that an abusive man does is to separate the woman from her family and friends. He alienates them to the point where it is easier for her to not see them than it is for her to deal with the arguments and fighting that occur when she sees them. Yes, a smart woman would see this as a red flag, but it is usually done over time, and by the time she understands what is happening, she may no longer have the support system she needs to get out of a bad situation.

If you are an abused woman, it is very hard to tell your friends and family that you are being abused (provided that they are still in the picture). I lived with a verbally abusive man for several years and there was no way I could tell my family about the way he treated me. Being pitied and thought of as stupid for making such a poor choice was more than I could bear at that point.

Frequently women in abusive relationships have children and no means of supporting themselves. If they are stay-at-home mothers, they may not have the skills needed to survive without a husband's income, particularly if, once again, he has alienated her support network.

It is very easy to blame the woman for being a victim, but the situation is generally much more complicated than you seem to think.

Last edited by lululu; October 29th, 2009 at 03:32 am.
- October 27th, 2009, 01:16 pm
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Share on Facebook

#13   Reply With Quote
ennoidyam's Avatar

ennoidyam Hates Zombie Cats!

Quick Study

Join Date: Jan 2009

Posts: 204

See profile

saulgoode wrote :
I'll second-third-fourth and fifth the kudos to you.

Stinks to do the right thing, only to find out you get a battering for it.

And that scene in the hallway, with your Kung Fu move on him... oh man, that was SEXY!

As for contacting her... man... I'm a guy in that respect, and for me, I see it as ~her~ responsibility to patch up, not yours.

You gave. She to

You give. She'll take.

See?

It's her turn to give.

And, for all these years, she hasn't given back. Maybe one day she'll give, maybe not, but her days of taking are done, I'd say.

I guess I'd echo the suggestion to send a note through your mom, via gossip and the grapevine, that you asked about her. Nothing more. Just a tickle to let her know you don't hate her.

As for her being a battered woman and a victim of a guy, that's a sad thing, but it's also a choice. It's her choice, good or bad. She had and still has an out, if she ever wanted it.

I can't imagine my bro doing anything like all that... I'm sorry.


- Saul

Lol! Leave it to Saul to find something "Hot" in the story...
I've fought a lot of guys in tournaments and NONE of them thought getting knee'd in the groin was sexy

Different strokes I guess...

I appreciate all the great advice and different perspectives. Some of you really helped me understand the psyche behind my sister's actions.

It's funny how different a man's reaction is from a woman's.

The women (Not just the posters here but myself and my mom) seem to try more to "understand" and "forgive & forget" but Saul AND my Father are more about the black and white issue, "make HER responsible ".
Hmm...


I think I am going to try and compose a letter...

I may post it here later to get your input as to whether it will do more harm than good.
- October 27th, 2009, 05:09 pm
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Share on Facebook

#14   Reply With Quote
WYskywatcher's Avatar

WYskywatcher enjoyed her run today.

Pacesetter

Join Date: Jul 2009

Posts: 448

See profile

Wow! After reading the entire post, I understand why it is sooo long. You are angry and hurt and have every right to be!! I want to point out that your behavior towards your sister speaks volumes about your character.

I would advise you to think about a few things before you make a decision on what to do:

a) Remember that everything you did for your sister, you chose to do. No one forced you to do any of it. Maybe ask yourself why you continued to do so much even after it was obivous that your help was not helping but was enabling.

b) If you choose to confront her, do not expect a response from your sister that is any different than the one you got in the past. If the thought of getting the same old response makes you even more angry and hurt, don't confront her. You'll only walk away with more hurt.

c) Forgiveness has nothing to do with excusing the other person's behavior. It is about freeing yourself up to let go of the hurt that you are carrying around inside you. You don't need an apology from your sister in order to forgive her. If you never speak to your sister again, you can still forgive her and heal from the anger and hurt you are feeling.

d) Lastly, remember that all men are not abominable like your sister's husband.
- October 27th, 2009, 07:07 pm
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Share on Facebook

#15   Reply With Quote

ADVERTISEMENT

Psycue's Avatar

Psycue hopes for better weather.

Quick Study

Join Date: Jul 2009

Posts: 117

See profile

ennoidyam wrote :
What makes having a man so important to some women that they will sacrifice their family, dignity, safety and happiness for it? And not just THIERS but their children's too?
I'm afraid that since I don't UNDERSTAND it, I might blow it with the letter and write the wrong thing.

What should I say?? I don't know how to begin to compose something like that. Do I mention the money? Or just avoid the whole issue and ask how she is? How do I let her know that I forgive her WITHOUT bringing it up?? How can I get her to leave that loser?

That would be a tragedy...
Most women in this situation see the problem but don't feel like they have OPTIONS. Imagine being in a room with no air and the only means of oxygen is by putting your head through a hold in the wall. You don't feel like you are choking while your head is in the hole; however, you don't know what's going on in the room.You are standing still and the only thing you hear and see while in the hole is a person who you love and believe is keeping you alive because he has provided you with air. That's the best analogy I can come up with.

Try starting off that she is loved and missed. You could even give some highlights of the past years. Mention the money and that you know it was her. Let her know you don't understand why but you love her the same because she is your sister.
Unfortunately, getting her to leave is what you want. She wants him to act right. The best you can do is reconnect and empower her by reminding her of things she was good at and ask if continues those activities.

Be prepared that she may not respond at all. This letter is your step. Her first step in taking her life back is by responding.

Yes it would be a tragedy. I have little experience with women in this situation because I got too involved and frustrated. I had a woman who was pregnant and the guy continue to emotional and physically abuse her. She said, "I told I'm I was having cramps but he still kick me in the stomach. He shouldn't have kicked me there." Really, guess he should've chose the leg or face. After a month of that, I quit.

Last edited by Psycue; October 27th, 2009 at 09:54 pm.
- October 27th, 2009, 09:49 pm
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Share on Facebook

#16   Reply With Quote
dnnmllr's Avatar

dnnmllr "Steady my feet in accord with your promise, Let not iniquity lead me"...

Veteran

Join Date: Feb 2008

Posts: 1,522

See profile

ennoidyam wrote :
When my Daughter was born, I LEFT her alcoholic father and flew almost 2,000 miles to stay with my sister and her husband. I had no college education, no car, and no money. But I would rather live in a cardboard box than with a poisonous Man.
My sister’s house was beautiful; it was like living with Martha Stewart. On the outside, it looked perfect; Homemaker Wife, Hard working Husband, adorable five year old daughter.
I sensed it wasn’t the whole picture but I didn’t ask-not my business.
One night I woke up to the sound of them arguing. He had come home from another woman’s house-again. My heart broke for her but I covered my ears and tried to stay out of it.
Then I heard him throwing things-he wanted to go back to the woman and she had hidden his keys. He screamed for her to get them and when I heard the fear in her voice as she struggled to find them, I was up and out like a Doberman. I opened the door and he was pushing her down the hall. I saw red and jumped on him. I pushed him against the wall and pressed my knee to his groin and my elbow to his throat. I don’t remember what I said to him but I do remember him yelling for my sister to "Get me off of him". What a coward. Couldn’t handle someone who could fight back and was asking the one he was JUST abusing to save HIM from a beating?
My sister called the Military Police and they took him away. A week later, he calls. Says he won’t come back home with HER (me) there. Guess who my sister kicked out? ME!
So, I move into a tiny trailer with my infant (all I could afford with my waitress job) and the Husband moves back. A month later he puts her in the hospital-again. Beat her in front of her five year old and messed up her back. I eventually join the military and move to another State. I tell her before leaving that if she EVER decides to leave him, she always has a place with me.
Seven months later she calls me. She is leaving. I welcome her to my apartment. I furnish my extra room for her and her daughter. She is pregnant so I buy furniture and clothes for the new baby as well. I tell her not to worry about working or paying rent. I pay all the bills and for food. I just am happy that she is free of him.
My only request is that if she MUST call him, she doesn’t tell him where she is. After a few months-she does. He shows up. I do not let him stay. When he leaves, I tell my sis that if she insists on letting this dangerous man back into her life (he has threatened her with a gun before) She cannot stay here and put me and my daughter in danger. She apologizes saying "She just didn’t want ~the new baby~ to not know his father. (Like that would be a BAD thing?)
Eventually she gets a job. She loathes feeling "indebted" to me and becomes angry and jealous of my life. So I introduce her to my friends and help her get an apartment (Put my name on the lease because she doesn’t make enough money). I pay the first month for her and help her get furniture.
I move to Germany. Before I leave, I pay for the next couple of months of her rent AND give her the travel money the Army gave me (about 3, 000). I tell her that if she EVER needs ANYTHING, to let me know-I will help if I can.
I leave. I am broke the first month in Germany because I gave my travel money to my sister. Coworkers help me out. I am anticipating the next payday. It doesn’t come for me. I find out I DID get paid-yet my account is practically empty. Military Finance officials investigate.
This goes on for two months. I can’t figure it out. Meanwhile, my daughter and I are living on Military pay advances. I get a huge envelope in the mail from my bank in America.
About 30 returned checks fall out. I get another one a week later-same thing. WHAT?? Mystery solved. I call my bank. Tell them I’ve been in Germany and didn’t write those checks. We argue. The signature is dead-on to mine and Bank officials cite that some of the checks are withdrawals which can only be done in PERSON and with a PHOTO ID. The painful truth hits me. A week before I left the States, I lost my Military ID card. Had to get another one. My sister and I are confused as twins all the time. I don’t write checks that often and wouldn’t notice if ONE book of checks was missing out of the dozen or so that I had. When I joined the military, I gave my last paycheck (from the waitressing job) to my sister. I taught her how to write my signature so she could cash it.
Well, I call my sister and tell her about the strange returned checks. I don’t mention my suspicion of her. She seems sympathetic and tell’s me she suspects a friend of mine might have done it. I stew on it a few days. I call her back. No answer.-ever again. Military Investigators inform me that they suspect my sister. They are ready to have civilian police find and arrest her-if I press charges. I don’t. It takes me 3 years to pay back all the money and my credit is screwed. I try to write a check at a store and am embarrassed when they decline it.
I forgive my sister. I think maybe she NEEDED the money for clothes or food or rent and was too embarrassed to ask me after I had done so much already. But I look at the checks. They are from places like "Footlocker", "Bed Bath and Beyond" , Clothing stores in the Mall that I’ve never heard of and…DOMINOES PIZZA???
Why do I tell this LONG story? Because ten years later (and still no contact from sis) I am at my parents house for Thanksgiving. My father recently discovered that she was living in the same state as me, 8 hours away, and still with her husband. I couldn’t believe she went back to him. But it explained why no one has heard from her (aside from her guilt) her husband was controlling and hated her family.
My mom talked about her conversations with my sister while I was in Germany. She said that shortly after I had left, My sister called, sad and lonely from HIS (husbands) parents house. She was upset that she had "Spent all that money on clothes and expensive gifts for him and his whole family for Christmas and they were still treating her like an outcast". My mom sad it struck her as strange because she new my sister had no money. How could she afford the designer clothes and items for so many people? I knew how. I was FURIOUS.
I still am. My sister did that and put me and my daughter through all of that for a MAN!! And a CHEATING, ABUSIVE, SNAKE MAN at that!!!
I don’t get women who stay with men like this. ESPECIALLY when they, like my sister, are GIVEN the opportunity to get out and still just run right back. I think they are not only stupid but selfish. Selfish because they not only prolonged their own suffering but that of their children and bring suffering to their families.
I don’t know what to do at this point. I have forgiven her a long time ago but now that I know where she is, I feel the urge to confront her. I feel like deserve an apology and an explanation at the very least. My daughter and I did without and lived on scraps for a long time because of what she did. My credit is screwed, even today, I won’t write a check at a store for fear of some alarm going off. Not to mention the worry she put my parents through by dropping off the face of the earth for ten years. We didn’t know if she was dead or alive.
I feel she is a coward. She chose to abandon those who care about her rather than face me with what she had done. She would be in PRISON right now if it weren’t for me. And she runs back to that demon after everything.
I also worry about her kids. They grew up watching all of that.
But she has hidden from us for so long; I fear that if I call her, she will disappear again. I’ve toyed with just showing up at the address but I don’t know if that’s a good idea either.
Should I just let it go? I just don’t know what do.
We are accountable for our own actions, not those of others.....It does not matter how others treat us, it matters how we treat them.

You wrote, *snip*, "I don’t know what to do at this point. I have forgiven her a long time ago"*snip*.

Forgiveness = Main Entry: forgivingFunction: adjective Date: 1623 1 : willing or able to forgive 2 : allowing room for error or weakness

So, you have forgiven her.....but you do not have to "do dinner with her".

You then wrote, *snip*," but now that I know where she is, I feel the urge to confront her."*snip*
(Tone = "Loving")
I understand your "urge"(need?) to "confront"(contact) her and it may be a good idea. Question: What will you talk about? Your care and concern for her well-being.....and how "she is forgiven"?

Even if she does not ask for your forgiveness, (my hope is that she is truely "repentant" for her grievance(s) and if she is truely repentant....."never doubt a repentant sinner" (reference Scripture)), you have indicated you have "forgiven" her (and this means you can "go free, giving thanks" (reference Scripture)). Your forgiveness does not mean that it was OK for her to commit this wrong doing. Your forgiveness allows for you to "let go" of the hurt, therefore, you can heal from any woundedness resulting from the offense. Your forgiveness also lets your sister "out of the past and into the present". The real "offense" is against herself because she did not love herself thus she "failed" at loving "others". This is where her healing is needed, and it may require help from a licensed professional, or not.

May God bless you.
- October 28th, 2009, 03:39 pm
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Share on Facebook

#17   Reply With Quote
saulgoode's Avatar

Unregistered

Join Date: Oct 2008

Posts: 1,308

See profile

E, funny that you say that your Dad & I agree on something... maybe it is the guy-perspective, and the hard-nose fatherly instinct in us that wants people to own-up to their decisions, both good and bad.

I'll bevel my response a bit, though, and say that you ~and~ your sister are both in my prayers. I wish the best for you. Siblings are precious and few.

I feel for you in this matter, deeply.


- Saul
- October 28th, 2009, 05:07 pm
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Share on Facebook

#18   Reply With Quote
OverAnalyzer's Avatar

OverAnalyzer has decided to do her own thing

Pacesetter

Join Date: Jul 2009

Posts: 354

See profile

Unless you've been in an abusive situation you will not realize or understand how quick you find yourself in it and how difficult it is to get out of. She has been manipulated, controlled, threatened, and beaten, at the very least for years. Sometimes choice does not apply and freedom means nothing.

From my experience I can offer you this: if she is still with him she will not change. She needs to be free of him before she will open up or begin to act like the sister you once knew. It may cause more harm for her and the children if you try and reopen the wound or try to get her out. When she is ready she will leave. She will need to hit rock bottom first, but when it's time she will know.

I would simply send her a sentimental "thinking of you" card, maybe add a few of your own words, and give her one way to contact you. Let her feel she has control over something. Maybe spray the card with a reminder scent of something special. She will cherish this and it may give her strength.

If you don't hear from her, keep in mind she may not have received the card. Abusers are sneaky and will do things you would not imagine to protect their victims from outside help.

Don't lose faith and don't give up. Keep praying for her and her children and plan to see her, when she's ready.

Good luck and may the Almighty Power be with you.
- October 28th, 2009, 06:45 pm
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Share on Facebook

#19   Reply With Quote
Lilycat's Avatar

Lilycat How's 2010 treating everyone so far?

Pacesetter

Join Date: Nov 2009

Posts: 302

See profile

SInce you feel so strongly about this, send a communication, card, letter, something short, let her know you are still around for her, the door is open, and then drop it. Make it clear that you are not "not talking to her" and leave the ball in her court.

The women who talk earlier here about being in abusive relationships know whereof they speak. Reread the posts of those who have been there, this will help you in your understanding of her.

You want to do something for her? That might. Just might. You cannot remove her from her situation, or change it. Only she can do that. All you can do is make it clear you'll be around. Do not put conditions on it, like if you leave him, etc.

Getting closure, well, that is not something that you may get in the form that you want.You cannot fix what you see as being wrong in her life, only she can.

Sometimes the only closure you ever get is a funeral, sadly enough. Make your own peace with the situation, that is all you can do. And wait and see.

Lilycat
- November 21st, 2009, 01:20 pm
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!Share on Facebook

#20   Reply With Quote

ADVERTISEMENT

Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Update on: New advice 1sttimer Relationships 5 September 18th, 2009 08:19 pm
Free Communication Weekend: Advice for Visitors Robert_inSD Using eHarmony 10 September 4th, 2009 09:10 pm
New Discussion Board System for eHarmony Advice! eharmony Dating 172 July 18th, 2009 12:02 am

Latest on our Dating Advice Discussion Boards

“I know there are people that like to give this reason or that reason as to why people don't reply right away... But the fact is, if someone is really interested, they WILL make the time to respond, ... ” – goldengirl7676

Join the “Sometimes no communication doesn't mean you're not interested” discussion

“"The rest of you"?!Bwaa-ha-ha-ha! Now I have a designation!I'll have you know that my response was 100% accurate. I did do all that stuff last weekend....the teasing Priestess part was merely added ... ” – HarryG

Join the “Belated weekend and date roundup for week of March 8th!” discussion

“Not Guilty Have you ever traveled overseas” – dahlimema

Join the “Game: Guilty, or not Guilty” discussion

“ "The nice guy," is afraid to express negative emotions for some reason. Maybe there is something disingenuous about this person, maybe it is a facade. That "nice guy" is not deserving of respect. ... ” – meri75

Join the “The Kind Man and the Nice Guy in Relationships.” discussion

“I am an ethical vegetarian (meaning I do not wear leather or similar products and I actively support animal rights initiatives). This has not hindered my dating/social life. For the most part, I am ... ” – Fancypantz

Join the “Is dating a vegetarian a dealbreaker?” discussion

“one again, the ever popular "home cooked meal" excuse rears its head to attempt to validate why women should demand that men pay. home cookers, who many men have paid for a first date with you and ... ” – scarlet13

Join the “Going Dutch: What Does She Really Think?” discussion



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:57 am.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0